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	<title>Comments on: • Islam Clouds Bali&#8217;s Horizon</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/</link>
	<description>El Marco, a lone photojournalist exposes the madness</description>
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		<title>By: R.C.</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-15629</link>
		<dc:creator>R.C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 05:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-15629</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s quite simple.

Islam is currently divided (in both its Shia and Sunni implementations) between those who want to practice Islam authentically as taught by Mohammed, and those who want to modernize and internalize it. The latter are extraordinarily good neighbors. The former are, sadly, the actual orthodox Muslims.

Mohammed, you see, was not merely a good synthesizer of Jewish and Christian theology and scruples, although he was certainly that: He took the most-believable and easily-agreed upon common bits of Judaism and Christianity and repackaged them into a canon more perfectly suited for 7th-century Arabian tribalism: A stripped-down and mechanistic monotheism.

He was particularly clever about circumventing the endless debates between Jews and Christians about what constituted Holy Writ: Rather than collected works from many inspired authors (requiring interpretative effort and opening the door for disagreement about the nature of inspiration and which books belonged), Mohammed proffered a single work &quot;dictated by God&quot; in a single language from a single era of which any translation is regarded non-authoritative: A less messy and debate-prone proposition, and one promoting meme-cohesion and cultural cohesion in future followers by requiring the learning of that language.

But Mohammed was more than than a plagiarizer, he was a warleader: An early Arabian attempt to produce Shaka Zulu. All schools of Islamic jurisprudence teach abrogation: That the later Suras, when they contradict the earlier, overrule the earlier.

Unfortunately, this means that the more peaceful Suras (which date from the time that Islam was a minority movement incapable of waging open war against its neighbors) are overruled by the later ones (in which Mohammed calls all Muslims to dissimulate when in positions of weakness, but to conquer, humiliate, and subjugate all non-Muslims when opportunity arises).

The Byzantine emperor correctly commented that Mohammed brought absolutely nothing new to the religious life of the world except one very bad thing; namely, the advocacy of forcible conversion, compelled obedience, and economic oppression to grind down the conquered who held to other monotheistic faiths. (Conquered pagans were to be killed outright.)

This is old news to the jihadis. It isn&#039;t often appreciated by the occidentalized Muslims who&#039;re taught a bowdlerized form of Islam. Their children are getting the message, though, thanks to Saudi money.

Some Muslims of the more peaceful variety have posted here, shocked and outraged at what is said about their faith. This is understandable: They genuinely don&#039;t know. (Say what you like about Christians, but they&#039;re generally keenly aware of the failings of their forebears. Then again, those failings can generally be shown to contradict the character of Jesus whereas Islamic violence is entirely in character with Mohammed&#039;s regime.)

My inclination is: Treat the occidentalized Muslims with respect, while gently nudging them towards the available evidence. I think most of them genuinely mean no harm; when they discover that Mohammed genuinely meant plenty of harm, they&#039;ll have a choice to make, won&#039;t they?

But the genuine, authentic, unreconstructed Muslims (that is to say, the jihadis and their sympathizers)? I don&#039;t see why they should be permitted free travel to or within any civilized country on earth. They are not practitioners of a religion, but members of an armed totalitarian political movement with religious overtones. All the difference in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s quite simple.</p>
<p>Islam is currently divided (in both its Shia and Sunni implementations) between those who want to practice Islam authentically as taught by Mohammed, and those who want to modernize and internalize it. The latter are extraordinarily good neighbors. The former are, sadly, the actual orthodox Muslims.</p>
<p>Mohammed, you see, was not merely a good synthesizer of Jewish and Christian theology and scruples, although he was certainly that: He took the most-believable and easily-agreed upon common bits of Judaism and Christianity and repackaged them into a canon more perfectly suited for 7th-century Arabian tribalism: A stripped-down and mechanistic monotheism.</p>
<p>He was particularly clever about circumventing the endless debates between Jews and Christians about what constituted Holy Writ: Rather than collected works from many inspired authors (requiring interpretative effort and opening the door for disagreement about the nature of inspiration and which books belonged), Mohammed proffered a single work &#8220;dictated by God&#8221; in a single language from a single era of which any translation is regarded non-authoritative: A less messy and debate-prone proposition, and one promoting meme-cohesion and cultural cohesion in future followers by requiring the learning of that language.</p>
<p>But Mohammed was more than than a plagiarizer, he was a warleader: An early Arabian attempt to produce Shaka Zulu. All schools of Islamic jurisprudence teach abrogation: That the later Suras, when they contradict the earlier, overrule the earlier.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this means that the more peaceful Suras (which date from the time that Islam was a minority movement incapable of waging open war against its neighbors) are overruled by the later ones (in which Mohammed calls all Muslims to dissimulate when in positions of weakness, but to conquer, humiliate, and subjugate all non-Muslims when opportunity arises).</p>
<p>The Byzantine emperor correctly commented that Mohammed brought absolutely nothing new to the religious life of the world except one very bad thing; namely, the advocacy of forcible conversion, compelled obedience, and economic oppression to grind down the conquered who held to other monotheistic faiths. (Conquered pagans were to be killed outright.)</p>
<p>This is old news to the jihadis. It isn&#8217;t often appreciated by the occidentalized Muslims who&#8217;re taught a bowdlerized form of Islam. Their children are getting the message, though, thanks to Saudi money.</p>
<p>Some Muslims of the more peaceful variety have posted here, shocked and outraged at what is said about their faith. This is understandable: They genuinely don&#8217;t know. (Say what you like about Christians, but they&#8217;re generally keenly aware of the failings of their forebears. Then again, those failings can generally be shown to contradict the character of Jesus whereas Islamic violence is entirely in character with Mohammed&#8217;s regime.)</p>
<p>My inclination is: Treat the occidentalized Muslims with respect, while gently nudging them towards the available evidence. I think most of them genuinely mean no harm; when they discover that Mohammed genuinely meant plenty of harm, they&#8217;ll have a choice to make, won&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>But the genuine, authentic, unreconstructed Muslims (that is to say, the jihadis and their sympathizers)? I don&#8217;t see why they should be permitted free travel to or within any civilized country on earth. They are not practitioners of a religion, but members of an armed totalitarian political movement with religious overtones. All the difference in the world.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-14463</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 01:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-14463</guid>
		<description>Regan, His name is not listed among the seven dead Americans. El Marco</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regan, His name is not listed among the seven dead Americans. El Marco</p>
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		<title>By: Regan</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-10976</link>
		<dc:creator>Regan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-10976</guid>
		<description>I lost track of a friend in the 2005 Bali bombing. His nmae was Gary Clayton from Gulfport, Miss. Does anyone know the names of the american casualties in that bombing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lost track of a friend in the 2005 Bali bombing. His nmae was Gary Clayton from Gulfport, Miss. Does anyone know the names of the american casualties in that bombing?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-10642</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-10642</guid>
		<description>Thank you for an informative article and the beautiful, though sad, pictures. You&#039;re doing an incredible job by telling the story of Bali to the world and through your other articles. You&#039;ve been blessed with the art of conveying a message directly and &quot;saying it like it is!&quot; 

Thanks again and God bless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for an informative article and the beautiful, though sad, pictures. You&#8217;re doing an incredible job by telling the story of Bali to the world and through your other articles. You&#8217;ve been blessed with the art of conveying a message directly and &#8220;saying it like it is!&#8221; </p>
<p>Thanks again and God bless!</p>
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		<title>By: FNN &#187; Blog Archive &#187; DC 9-12 &#8217;09 &#8211; Recollecting the UNtold Story</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-10399</link>
		<dc:creator>FNN &#187; Blog Archive &#187; DC 9-12 &#8217;09 &#8211; Recollecting the UNtold Story</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 05:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-10399</guid>
		<description>[...] Islam Clouds Bali’s Horizon – Photo Essay  By El Marco [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Islam Clouds Bali’s Horizon – Photo Essay  By El Marco [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Showdown in Searchlight &#8226; Looking at the Left</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-7125</link>
		<dc:creator>Showdown in Searchlight &#8226; Looking at the Left</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 15:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-7125</guid>
		<description>[...] Learn about the beautiful people of BALI and how they have suffered from the spread of Wahabi Islam  -  Islam Clouds Bali’s Horizon &#8211; By El Marco [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Learn about the beautiful people of BALI and how they have suffered from the spread of Wahabi Islam  -  Islam Clouds Bali’s Horizon &#8211; By El Marco [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Obama Wants to Exploit Physicians not Listen to Them &#8226; Looking at the Left</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-6922</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama Wants to Exploit Physicians not Listen to Them &#8226; Looking at the Left</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-6922</guid>
		<description>[...] Islam Clouds Bali’s Horizon – Photo Essay  By El Marco [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Islam Clouds Bali’s Horizon – Photo Essay  By El Marco [...]</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-6782</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 05:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-6782</guid>
		<description>Islam = Submission, so don&#039;t parrot the lie about peace. Indonesian moslem women do not cover themselves except those who have been radicalized by Saudi trained clerics.  Arabs also say that a woman is like a candy. You keep it wrapped or it will be covered in flies. What an ignorant, perverted, filthy concept. Equally perverted is your contention that jews made your moslem brothers bomb Bali. Here is one article from today about how Islam treats women in Arabia. Also you might be interested in a movie titled &quot;Death of a Princess&quot;. It&#039;s about the perverts who rule Saudi Arabia.  

A 13-year-old girl has been sentenced to 90 lashes and two months’ prison
in Saudi Arabia after she took a mobile phone to school.

A court ordered the girl to be flogged in front of her classmates 
following an assault on the school principal, according to the Saudi daily newspaper Al-Watan.

http://faustasblog.com/?p=18132</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Islam = Submission, so don&#8217;t parrot the lie about peace. Indonesian moslem women do not cover themselves except those who have been radicalized by Saudi trained clerics.  Arabs also say that a woman is like a candy. You keep it wrapped or it will be covered in flies. What an ignorant, perverted, filthy concept. Equally perverted is your contention that jews made your moslem brothers bomb Bali. Here is one article from today about how Islam treats women in Arabia. Also you might be interested in a movie titled &#8220;Death of a Princess&#8221;. It&#8217;s about the perverts who rule Saudi Arabia.  </p>
<p>A 13-year-old girl has been sentenced to 90 lashes and two months’ prison<br />
in Saudi Arabia after she took a mobile phone to school.</p>
<p>A court ordered the girl to be flogged in front of her classmates<br />
following an assault on the school principal, according to the Saudi daily newspaper Al-Watan.</p>
<p><a href="http://faustasblog.com/?p=18132" rel="nofollow">http://faustasblog.com/?p=18132</a></p>
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		<title>By: ISLAM = peace</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-6673</link>
		<dc:creator>ISLAM = peace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 02:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-6673</guid>
		<description>jews are made some people which are not muslims to do all of bad thing in the name of islam 

just to make islam look evil , ok it wont happend most of 

i very proud of my brother muslims in indeonisa and people from other religon god bless you all 

by the way womens never killed in muslims country and even men for the reasons that you said stop telling people fake things about islam 

wonen killed in USA and westren country for cheting on her husband and raped all the time 

islam is make the women like pearl no one get it unless he is ready to marry it so she coverd her self so no body enjoy her expet her husband

islam is the right way every body love this religion just read a true thing 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jews are made some people which are not muslims to do all of bad thing in the name of islam </p>
<p>just to make islam look evil , ok it wont happend most of </p>
<p>i very proud of my brother muslims in indeonisa and people from other religon god bless you all </p>
<p>by the way womens never killed in muslims country and even men for the reasons that you said stop telling people fake things about islam </p>
<p>wonen killed in USA and westren country for cheting on her husband and raped all the time </p>
<p>islam is make the women like pearl no one get it unless he is ready to marry it so she coverd her self so no body enjoy her expet her husband</p>
<p>islam is the right way every body love this religion just read a true thing</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.lookingattheleft.com/2008/11/bali-bombing-victims-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-6219</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 06:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lookingattheleft.com/?p=1288#comment-6219</guid>
		<description>You are right about Saudi Arabia experiencing some terrorism. It&#039;s moslem on moslem and it makes the civilized peoples of the world sick. Saudi Arabia has fomented and financed terrorist groups for many many years. When moslems aren&#039;t killing Hindus in Bali or Buddhists in Thailand or Black Africans in Sudan or Jews in Israel or Americans (and people from 80 other nations) in New York City, they are blowing each other to bits in Saudi and Iraq and Pakistan and Jordan etc. etc. etc. So, &quot;proud muslim Saudi&quot;, it&#039;s hard for us to feel sorry for you when you are so busy fomenting terror against non-moslems and at the same time, terrorizing each other. 

The bombers of Bali are very very proud moslems too. Why are they so proud? Are you as proud as they are?  After reading about what your people did to the Balinese how can you comment here and say how proud you are? A moderate moslem would not mention pride in this context.

I have moslem friends in Indonesia. We drink beer together and they are very trustworthy and loyal friends for many years. We work together and they always watch out for me. They are ashamed of what happened in Bali and they are very clear when they speak about it.

You say there are no mosques in Bali. Bali does have plenty of mosques. Most Saudis avoid Bali because it&#039;s a Hindu land and it&#039;s brothels that they don&#039;t have. Saudi tourists go to moslem Java because there are many thousands of brothels that cater to arabs. The people of Java refer to prostitution as &quot;Saudi sport&quot; because Saudis are the number one customers. Maybe that&#039;s why you didn&#039;t notice any mosques in Bali. You say you were in Bali twice yet you didn&#039;t pray in a single mosque in Bali? What were you doing? My moslem friends all go to mosque every Friday in Bali. All moslem shops are closed on Friday. Where do you think they are?  It&#039;s not hard to find a mosque there. On friday groups of men from Java and Madura cannot be missed as they walk to worship with their submission rugs on their shoulders.

 In 1900 Bali was 99.6% Hindu with a few Chinese and westerners but not one single mosque. Today up to 7% are moslem who chauvinistically regard the Balinese as savages. They live separately and resentful of the Balinese success in tourism and export trade. This points to one of the motives of all Islamic terrorists. They want to damage the successful &quot;other&quot; and in so doing ease the extreme embarrassment that success inflicts on the moslem psyche. It is for this same reason that they attack the west and by extension Israel. During the last 4 decades of the 20th century tiny Bali became the largest foreign currency earner in Indonesia, far out-performing Java in per-capita income. As the world marveled at Bali&#039;s success in export and tourism the Javanese grew jealous and embarrassed by their relative poverty and failure to attract commerce.

It&#039;s this moslem pride which you claim that caused the Bali bombings. Pride in Islam always manifests itself in violence because that&#039;s how mohammed lived his life. The central principal in islam is submission, and those who do no submit by paying tax and groveling to islam must be attacked until they convert, or bow down and accept the yoke of sharia law. Woe to them that demonstrate to the world by their industry what retrograde failures moslem societies are by comparison.

 Hindu&#039;s are marked doubly by Islam because they pray in a multi-faceted divine realm. As polytheists they are excluded from any accommodation according to sharia. One only has to strike up a conversation with a Sikh or Hindu man from India to learn of the many millions killed there over the centuries by moslems following islamic rules.

The Dayak of Borneo, Indonesia were head-hunters until the colonial powers outlawed and stopped it in the 18th and 19th centuries. When are moslems going to stop being head-hunters? When will Saudi Arabia stop chopping women&#039;s heads off in public in the name of your king? How many heads did the perfect man cut with his sword for the ancient arabian moon god? I hope you are not so proud a moslem that you would follow his example and kill for allah.    

El Marco  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right about Saudi Arabia experiencing some terrorism. It&#8217;s moslem on moslem and it makes the civilized peoples of the world sick. Saudi Arabia has fomented and financed terrorist groups for many many years. When moslems aren&#8217;t killing Hindus in Bali or Buddhists in Thailand or Black Africans in Sudan or Jews in Israel or Americans (and people from 80 other nations) in New York City, they are blowing each other to bits in Saudi and Iraq and Pakistan and Jordan etc. etc. etc. So, &#8220;proud muslim Saudi&#8221;, it&#8217;s hard for us to feel sorry for you when you are so busy fomenting terror against non-moslems and at the same time, terrorizing each other. </p>
<p>The bombers of Bali are very very proud moslems too. Why are they so proud? Are you as proud as they are?  After reading about what your people did to the Balinese how can you comment here and say how proud you are? A moderate moslem would not mention pride in this context.</p>
<p>I have moslem friends in Indonesia. We drink beer together and they are very trustworthy and loyal friends for many years. We work together and they always watch out for me. They are ashamed of what happened in Bali and they are very clear when they speak about it.</p>
<p>You say there are no mosques in Bali. Bali does have plenty of mosques. Most Saudis avoid Bali because it&#8217;s a Hindu land and it&#8217;s brothels that they don&#8217;t have. Saudi tourists go to moslem Java because there are many thousands of brothels that cater to arabs. The people of Java refer to prostitution as &#8220;Saudi sport&#8221; because Saudis are the number one customers. Maybe that&#8217;s why you didn&#8217;t notice any mosques in Bali. You say you were in Bali twice yet you didn&#8217;t pray in a single mosque in Bali? What were you doing? My moslem friends all go to mosque every Friday in Bali. All moslem shops are closed on Friday. Where do you think they are?  It&#8217;s not hard to find a mosque there. On friday groups of men from Java and Madura cannot be missed as they walk to worship with their submission rugs on their shoulders.</p>
<p> In 1900 Bali was 99.6% Hindu with a few Chinese and westerners but not one single mosque. Today up to 7% are moslem who chauvinistically regard the Balinese as savages. They live separately and resentful of the Balinese success in tourism and export trade. This points to one of the motives of all Islamic terrorists. They want to damage the successful &#8220;other&#8221; and in so doing ease the extreme embarrassment that success inflicts on the moslem psyche. It is for this same reason that they attack the west and by extension Israel. During the last 4 decades of the 20th century tiny Bali became the largest foreign currency earner in Indonesia, far out-performing Java in per-capita income. As the world marveled at Bali&#8217;s success in export and tourism the Javanese grew jealous and embarrassed by their relative poverty and failure to attract commerce.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s this moslem pride which you claim that caused the Bali bombings. Pride in Islam always manifests itself in violence because that&#8217;s how mohammed lived his life. The central principal in islam is submission, and those who do no submit by paying tax and groveling to islam must be attacked until they convert, or bow down and accept the yoke of sharia law. Woe to them that demonstrate to the world by their industry what retrograde failures moslem societies are by comparison.</p>
<p> Hindu&#8217;s are marked doubly by Islam because they pray in a multi-faceted divine realm. As polytheists they are excluded from any accommodation according to sharia. One only has to strike up a conversation with a Sikh or Hindu man from India to learn of the many millions killed there over the centuries by moslems following islamic rules.</p>
<p>The Dayak of Borneo, Indonesia were head-hunters until the colonial powers outlawed and stopped it in the 18th and 19th centuries. When are moslems going to stop being head-hunters? When will Saudi Arabia stop chopping women&#8217;s heads off in public in the name of your king? How many heads did the perfect man cut with his sword for the ancient arabian moon god? I hope you are not so proud a moslem that you would follow his example and kill for allah.    </p>
<p>El Marco</p>
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